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billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #1 
Hi,

We're researching the family history and just got back to Leekfrith, specifically Marsh Farm (which I assume is the Grade II listed building of the same name):

John William Ash - he of J.W. Ash and Sons butchers in Leek
Born: Leekfrith, June 9 1879 (3rd Q 1879 Leek 6b 299)
Died: Leek, June 11 1951 (2nd Q 1951 Leek 9b 164)

He was (allegedly) the illegitimate son of a Leek auctioneer, so we don't have his father's name on any certificates but got his mother and her father through his birth certificate (although I've yet to summon the relevant certificates):

Catherine Ash
Born: Leekfrith, 1860 (1st Q 1860 Leek 6b 251):
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=29890239&d=bmd_1356684424

From census records we get her parents through the 1871 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KDDH-RQV
and 1881 one (with John W. Ash living there, along with the nephew Joshua Ash):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3KM-1QX

John Ash
Born: Tittesworth, 1820 (there is a typo in the 1871 census - it is given as Littisworth, but it is given as Littleworth in the 1861 one, however, it is given as Tittesworth in the 1881, which is the closest. The birthdate seems to be wrong in the 1871 census)

Esther Ash
Born: Leekfrith, 1812-1813
Died: 1882 (4th Q  Leek 6b 209)
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=69481461&d=bmd_1356684424
Buried: St Matthews Church, Meerbrook, December 18 1882 (thanks to your transcription of burial records)

They were married in 1849, presumably in Leekfrith (3rd Q 1849 Leek 17 71):
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=15014653&d=bmd_1356684424

And they had another son:

John Oakes Ash
Born: Leekfrith, October 19 1855 (4th Q 1855 Leek 6b 189)
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?scan=1&r=23591354&d=bmd_1356684424
Died: Leek, Aug 6 1925 (3rd Q 1925 Leek 6b 264)
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=153109066&d=bmd_1356684424
This seems to be him married to Frances Charlotte Scarratt, from Ipstones:
http://records.ancestry.com/John_Oakes_Ash_records.ashx?pid=131439403
http://www.bnjscj.info/secondsite/p2000.htm

--
It is hoped that the baptismal records (which are often more... indiscreet) might contain the name of John W. Ash's father. We will be heading down to Staffordshire at some point this year to follow various leads, but any pointers you can give before then would be much appreciated.

Of course, it'd also be great to find other family members (there do seem to be quite a few in Leekfrith) and push the family tree further back from John and Esther Ash.

Also, if it'd be useful we can make a GEDCOM copy of the family tree available, in case it'd be useful. We can also provide scans of the relevant certificates (when they arrive) as it might save other people effort (or in case you were gathering together such information in general). The information is being added to MyHeritage.com and Geni.com (and Tribal Pages), so if anyone related to us are constructing their family trees there, then they'll bump into us eventually too.

Anyway that is where we currently stand, we'll update as we go along.

--
edit: An update sooner than I thought:

Just in case it matches with anyone else's web searches, I thought I'd add that John W. Ash married Maud Harrison, who was at Odda Hall, Ipstones, her parents were John and Elizabeth Harrison and they had quite a few kids:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3K9-8R5
bobatbanktop

Registered:
Posts: 2
 #2 
Hi Bill,
I'll ask round and see what we can come up with.

Kind regards Bob Foster
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #3 
Bob,

Thanks, any help is much appreciated.

Here is a quick update:

A number of relevant gravestones in Meerbrook, which helps fill in some dates.

John and Esther were married on July 12, 1849 in Rushton Chapel, Leek parish.

Esther Ash was born Kirkham, her parents were Isaac Kirkham and Sarah who had numerous children: John (1804-), Hannah (1805-), Samuel (1807-), Elizabeth (1808-), William (1811-), Joseph (1815-) and Isaac (1819-).

There are earlier bits of family trees that don't quite tie in, although they might hook in as things are pushed back:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M1CG-16C

John Ash's parents were Solomon Ash and Sarah, who also had quite a few kids: John (1886-1820), Ann (1812-), Moses (1814-1896), William (1817-), Sarah (1822) and Catherine (1824)

Moses married Ellen Plant Hassall (parents: Edward and Ellen) and they are the parents of Joshua, mentioned in the first post.

Despite having a relatively unusual name, Solomon Ash seems to disappear. There is an earlier Solomon Ash in the area, who appears to be this one who had kids 1763-1772 in Leek with Ann. They appear to be the ones involved in a defamation suit. There are certainly other Ashes around in this period but quite how they all fit in is unclear. But we're still digging.
Unregistered
 #4 
Hi Brian, Sorry to be so long in replying. We have records of Burial, Marriage and Tombstones in the Meerbrook Churchyard they are however far from complete. Searching what we have I have come up with these.

Tombstones...

No. 14

ERECTED / TO THE MEMORY OF / ELLEN PLANT ASH / WIFE OF MOSES

ASH LATE OF / TITTESWORTH IN THE PARISH OF / ....... WHO DIED

mss 15th ..... / AGED 52 YEARS / ............. HARRY ........ /

......... 1878 ............

 

 

No.139

In Affectionate Remembrance / of / ANNIE JANE / the Beloved Wife of / JOHN

WILLIAM ASH / (of WITHINS) / who died Dec 3rd 1894 / aged 20 years / Also

of MARY LOUISA / Daughter of the above named / who died Aug.2nd 1894 / aged

14 weeks / Thy will be done /

Headstone

 

No.140

In loving memory / of / JOHN ASH / of BUTTYFOLD UPPERHULME / who died Aug.7th

1893 / in the 73rd year of his age /

Why do we mourn departed friends

Or shake at deaths alarms

Tis but the voice that Jesus sends

To call them to His arms

 

Also JANE / relict of the above / who died July 5th 1904 / in her 71st year /

I shall miss thee sadly Mother

More than ever I can tell

I shall never find another

That will love me half so well

Headstone

 

No. 151

In Memeory of / MARY / wife of JAMES ASH / of BLACKSHAW MOOR / who died March 22nd 1861 / Aged

80 years. / Also of the above / JAMES ASH / who died August 20th 1861 / Aged 88 years./

Parted friends again may meet

from the toils of nature free

Crown'd with mercy O, how sweet

will eternal friendship be.

 

No. 163

In Memory/of/SOLOMON/son of JOHN & ESTHER ASH,/of MARSH FARM MEERBROOK/Who died July

15th 1866/Aged 16 years./Also WILLIAM son of JOHN & ESTHER ASH,/Who died August 1st 1851/

Aged 4 months/Also RACHEL daughter of JOHN & ESTHER ASH/Who died May 21st 1853 aged

12 months./

These lovely Buds so young & fair

All'd Hence by early doom

Came But to show how sweet a flower

In Paradise could Bloom.

 

Headstone

"Withins" is a property which is now just a pile of Stones to the North East of Hen Cloud

MARRIAGES....

MonthYearForenameSurnameAgeConditionRank or professionResidence at Time of MarriageFather's ForenameFather's SurnameRank and Profession of FatherWitness1 ForenameWitness1 SurnameWitness2 ForenameWitness2 SurnameVicarIlliterateBy licenceSuperintendent Registrar's certificate 
41876JohnAshfullBachelorFarmerUpper HulmeJosephAshFarmerWilliamWheeldonRuthWheeldonW Nicholson yes 
December1893John WilliamAsh20BachelorFarm ServantUpper HulmeMosesAshFarmerThomas WilliamWoodSarah JaneAshW. Nicholson   


You already have the burial records stuff. If as we continue with our record collecting anything else comes up I'll repost on here.

Kind regards Bob Foster

billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #5 
Bob, thanks for the extra information.

As it might, help I'll slot these into the family tree:

This is the above mentioned Ellen Plant Ash (1817-?) wife of Moses Ash (1814-1896), son of Solomon and Sarah Ash. I had her death as 1850:
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=15541197&d=bmd_1363644324

But she also had a daughter of the same name, although I thought this was the daughter in the 1881 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3KM-F6R
And her marriage (although the birthdate would be wrong):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXFZ-MQJ

So it might need more work to clarify (but it isn't overly important is they aren't in the family's direct line - one to tuck away for future research). It is also unclear who the Harry would be (we have most of that side of the family and there isn't a Harry in there).

Quote:
No. 14

ERECTED / TO THE MEMORY OF / ELLEN PLANT ASH / WIFE OF MOSES

ASH LATE OF / TITTESWORTH IN THE PARISH OF / ....... WHO DIED

mss 15th ..... / AGED 52 YEARS / ............. HARRY ........ /

......... 1878 ............



Three of the five children of John and Esther Ash (mentioned above - directly in the family tree), luckily their other children, John Oakes Ash and Catherine Ash, went on to have children.

Quote:
No. 163

In Memory/of/SOLOMON/son of JOHN & ESTHER ASH,/of MARSH FARM MEERBROOK/Who died July

15th 1866/Aged 16 years./Also WILLIAM son of JOHN & ESTHER ASH,/Who died August 1st 1851/

Aged 4 months/Also RACHEL daughter of JOHN & ESTHER ASH/Who died May 21st 1853 aged

12 months./

These lovely Buds so young & fair

All'd Hence by early doom

Came But to show how sweet a flower

In Paradise could Bloom.



Although an impressive coincidence these aren't currently in the family tree (yet), our John William Ash was only 15 at the time and our John Ash was still married at this point (and because these also match the marriage records, we can see that neither father fits with our family tree) - it seems like an Upper Hulme branch of the family that I assume will slot in at a later date:

Quote:
No.139

In Affectionate Remembrance / of / ANNIE JANE / the Beloved Wife of / JOHN

WILLIAM ASH / (of WITHINS) / who died Dec 3rd 1894 / aged 20 years / Also

of MARY LOUISA / Daughter of the above named / who died Aug.2nd 1894 / aged

14 weeks / Thy will be done /


No.140

In loving memory / of / JOHN ASH / of BUTTYFOLD UPPERHULME / who died Aug.7th

1893 / in the 73rd year of his age /

Why do we mourn departed friends

Or shake at deaths alarms

Tis but the voice that Jesus sends

To call them to His arms

 

Also JANE / relict of the above / who died July 5th 1904 / in her 71st year /

I shall miss thee sadly Mother

More than ever I can tell

I shall never find another

That will love me half so well

...


"Withins" is a property which is now just a pile of Stones to the North East of Hen Cloud

MARRIAGES....

MonthYearForenameSurnameAgeConditionRank or professionResidence at Time of MarriageFather's ForenameFather's SurnameRank and Profession of FatherWitness1 ForenameWitness1 SurnameWitness2 ForenameWitness2 SurnameVicarIlliterateBy licenceSuperintendent Registrar's certificate 
41876JohnAshfullBachelorFarmerUpper HulmeJosephAshFarmerWilliamWheeldonRuthWheeldonW Nicholson yes 
December1893John WilliamAsh20BachelorFarm ServantUpper HulmeMosesAshFarmerThomas WilliamWoodSarah JaneAshW. Nicholson   


Looking them up the details match the gravestones:

John and Jane Ash married in 1876:
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=57625391&d=bmd_1363644324

John William and Annie Ash married in 1893:
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=90516206&d=bmd_1363644324

For reasons that are unclear, the marriages we have details for (John Ash and Esther Kirkham in 1849) are in Leek, specifically Rushton Chapel.

Also thanks for the information on Withins - I got the 1906 1 inch to a mile map of the area and following your directions I have found it marked on there (possibly as written as Withens).

And finally, it is unclear where these fit in (although as our John Ash comes from Tittesworth it is reasonable to assume they are from somewhere on the family tree):

Quote:
No. 151

In Memeory of / MARY / wife of JAMES ASH / of BLACKSHAW MOOR / who died March 22nd 1861 / Aged

80 years. / Also of the above / JAMES ASH / who died August 20th 1861 / Aged 88 years./

Parted friends again may meet

from the toils of nature free

Crown'd with mercy O, how sweet

will eternal friendship be.



Quote:
You already have the burial records stuff. If as we continue with our record collecting anything else comes up I'll repost on here.


All your help is much appreciated, anything we can't use looks like it'll slot in at some point and/or might be of use to someone else.

Unregistered
 #6 
Hi,
My name is Lynette I live just out of Fremantle in Western Australia.

My GGG Grandmother was Phoebe Ash [born 1766] at Leek she married Francis Follows at Burslem Staffordshire in 1789 [At this point i dont have her certificate of birth.

I believe Phoebe's parents were Solomon Ash and Ann Morris.

In the 1841 u/k census Phoebe was living with Moses Ash [age 25], Sarah Ash [age 60] Sarah [age 18 ] and Catherine [16] and my ggg-grandmother Phoebe Follows [75 years] Francis had died. There were also three young boys working for them.

The address was at Tittesworth, Leek, Staffordshire so I am very sure that Solomon Ash was my ggg grandmother brother.

If anyone has any information on this side of the Ash Family I would so appreicate it as living half way around the world I can't research as I would wish.

Kind regards
Lynette
Unregistered
 #7 
Some great work here. Well done.
Unregistered
 #8 
Hi Lynette
You'll find lots of help in the previous post. Good luck.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #9 
Quote:
In the 1841 u/k census Phoebe was living with Moses Ash [age 25], Sarah Ash [age 60] Sarah [age 18 ] and Catherine [16] and my ggg-grandmother Phoebe Follows [75 years] Francis had died. There were also three young boys working for them.


That seems like us all right - welcome to the family.

Sarah Ash was married to one of the Solomon Ashes and had a number of children including Moses (c. 1814/1816-1896), Sarah (b. 1822) and Catherine (b. 1824), as well as John Ash (1806-1820), Ann Ash (b. 1812), William Ash (b. 1817) and John Ash (1820-1898) - the last one being on the direct family tree. Only Moses and the second John seem to have had children and I have details on some of their families too.

This could be the breakthrough we've been looking for to push the family tree back and hook it into other local Ashes. So if you are saying that both this Solomon Ash and Phoebe Ash are brother and sister, children of another Solomon and Ann Morris then we can hook this into an existing family tree I've had my eye on, but not managed to establish a link with:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MZ91-YLY
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9M7D-XY4

This would then take us back to Thomas Ash born in 1615 with the family moving over from Rudyard into Leekfrith (Gunside Farm is mentioned):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MZ91-YYC

There is some confusing information as it implies Thomas Ash married Martha Tunnicliffe (who definitely seems to be the mother of Ann Morris' Solomon Ash) in his late 50s and kept having children into his 70s:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MZ91-YZR

It is more likely that she married his son Thomas (there lots of Thomases once you get back passed the point where the naming turned Old Testament):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MZ91-YN7

Double checking I find that one of those does indeed do that, which seems the most sensible shuffling of the data:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9M78-TKS

The wedding certificates will sort this out, as the ages will tell the story but I'm provisionally going with this one.

I have three children listed for Solomon and Ann Ash:

Mary Ash (b. 1763):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NG7F-TMH

Moses Ash (b. 1765):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW44-K98

Catharine (typo?) Ash (b. 1772):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW44-KLJ

Solomon Ash (b. 1738) married Ann Morris (b. 1742) in 1763 in Cheshire (an odd location considering she also seems to be from Leek):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NVS6-VPX
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NHJW-QZ3
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NHCM-FJ7

I can't find evidence for Solomon and Ann also having other children (presumably Solomon and Phoebe) but I was already hitting a brick wall with Solomon's parents. However, if you can link Phoebe to them, it seems pretty certain we can also link Solomon in there and it might help tighten the search until something turns up. Any information you can give on this would be greatly appreciated, as you know there are many transcription errors getting in the way of a useful search result:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MQT3-PYP
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/SGLT-28C
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6BX-3Q9

There doesn't seem much on Ann Morris' parents, but that side of the family also needs investigating.

Hopefully, if we pool our information and research efforts we should be able to nail all this down.

Quote:
If anyone has any information on this side of the Ash Family I would so appreicate it as living half way around the world I can't research as I would wish.


Well the above should be a start, but if we get any paperwork for joint family members I'd be happy to send you a scan or photocopies.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #10 
I also thought I'd return to the Upper Hulme Ashes as it appears they might tie in here, although quite how is unclear. I've also not put in the time to chase everything down here, without a clear link back into the family tree, as it could turn out to be a wrong turn (and I've wasted time on that before).

Quote:
Although an impressive coincidence these aren't currently in the family tree (yet), our John William Ash was only 15 at the time and our John Ash was still married at this point (and because these also match the marriage records, we can see that neither father fits with our family tree) - it seems like an Upper Hulme branch of the family that I assume will slot in at a later date:

Quote:
No.139

In Affectionate Remembrance / of / ANNIE JANE / the Beloved Wife of / JOHN

WILLIAM ASH / (of WITHINS) / who died Dec 3rd 1894 / aged 20 years / Also

of MARY LOUISA / Daughter of the above named / who died Aug.2nd 1894 / aged

14 weeks / Thy will be done /


No.140

In loving memory / of / JOHN ASH / of BUTTYFOLD UPPERHULME / who died Aug.7th

1893 / in the 73rd year of his age /

Why do we mourn departed friends

Or shake at deaths alarms

Tis but the voice that Jesus sends

To call them to His arms

 

Also JANE / relict of the above / who died July 5th 1904 / in her 71st year /

I shall miss thee sadly Mother

More than ever I can tell

I shall never find another

That will love me half so well

...


"Withins" is a property which is now just a pile of Stones to the North East of Hen Cloud

MARRIAGES....

MonthYearForenameSurnameAgeConditionRank or professionResidence at Time of MarriageFather's ForenameFather's SurnameRank and Profession of FatherWitness1 ForenameWitness1 SurnameWitness2 ForenameWitness2 SurnameVicarIlliterateBy licenceSuperintendent Registrar's certificate 
41876JohnAshfullBachelorFarmerUpper HulmeJosephAshFarmerWilliamWheeldonRuthWheeldonW Nicholson yes 
December1893John WilliamAsh20BachelorFarm ServantUpper HulmeMosesAshFarmerThomas WilliamWoodSarah JaneAshW. Nicholson  
 

Looking them up the details match the gravestones:

John and Jane Ash married in 1876:
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=57625391&d=bmd_1363644324

John William and Annie Ash married in 1893:
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=90516206&d=bmd_1363644324


The source of the Upper Hulme Ashes seems to be Joseph Ash:

Quote:
Joseph Ash
International Genealogical Index (IGI)
birth:     1774    
marriage:     ABT 1805     of Meerbrook, Staffordshire, England
death:     6 APR 1832     Upperhulme, Leekfrith, Staffordshire, England

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9KXB-9BQ

His birthdate would fit in with Solomon and Ann's children or would put them in a similar generation, perhaps the offspring of an one of Solomon's brothers.

Joseph and Mary Ash had a lot of children:

Quote:
Hannah Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    05 Jun 1806    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NYK7-78L

Quote:
Sarah Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    23 Jul 1807    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NG7K-ZT5
1861 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M74G-DB9

She appears in the burial records you have:

Quote:
BURIALS in the parish of Leek in the Chapelry of Meerbrook in the County of Stafford        
                           
Page    Entry Num    Forename    Surname    Other names or comment    Abode    Date    Year    Age    By whom the Ceremony was performed

100    796    Sarah     Ash        The Paddock    June 1      1895    87    W. Nicholson Vicar

   
Quote:
Charlotte Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    16 Apr 1809    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW4H-S6T

Quote:
Joseph Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    15 Apr 1811    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW4H-9NL

Quote:
Mary Ann Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    16 Apr 1813    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGC4-GMG

Quote:
George Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    27 Aug 1815    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGC4-2LC

Quote:
James Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    10 Aug 1817    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JMZV-PQ9

Quote:
Ellen Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    10 Feb 1820    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3SR-YLS
   
Quote:
John Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    16 Jun 1821    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQPR-3JK
1861 census?:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M74G-DBS
Seems to be the same as the John Ash from gravestone #140 above

Quote:
Ann Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    03 Aug 1823    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGC4-GMG

Quote:
Mary Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    16 May 1825    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Joseph Ash, Mary

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW4L-CNY

And some grandkids seem to show up:

Son of Charlotte (b. 1809)?:

Quote:
George Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    09 Apr 1831    MEERBROOK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Charlotte Ash

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGC4-2LD
1851 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/SGGM-DNM

His death is the one listed in the burial register:

Quote:
BURIALS in the parish of Leek in the Chapelry of Meerbrook in the County of Stafford    
                               
Page    Entry Num    Forename    Surname    Other names or comment    Abode    Date    Year    Age    By whom the Ceremony was performed

119    948    George     Ash        5 Westwood Terrace        Leek    June 26      1909    78    W.C. Nicholls Vicar


Son (illegitimate?) of Ann Ash (b. 1823)?:

Quote:
Moses Brassington Ash
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975   
christening:    28 Jan 1842    LEEK,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
parents:Anne Ash

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW42-2QZ

Quote:
Births Mar 1842
Ash     Moses          Leek     17    55

http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=5074681&d=bmd_1363644324

1851 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/SGL1-LQP

1861 census:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M74G-68N

1871 census - confusing as there seem to be two:
As visitor
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M7R4-M35
As grandson - in house full of Ashes in Leekfrith:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KDDH-Y8S

1871 marriage to Elizabeth Mellor (b. c.1848 in Quarnford, Staffs):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJY9-66T

1881 census - with own family (with father-in-law Thomas Mellor):
Quote:
Moses Ash
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth:    1842    Leekfrith, Staffordshire, England
census:    1881    Leek Frith, Staffordshire, England
spouse:Elizabeth Ash
children:John Ash, Sarah Jane Ash, George Ash, Mary Ash, Elizabeth Ann Ash

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3KM-1HJ

Would be this Moses Ash from the above marriage records:

Quote:
Month    Year    Forename    Surname    Age    Condition    Rank or profession    Residence at Time of Marriage    Father's Forename    Father's Surname    Rank and Profession of Father    Witness1 Forename    Witness1 Surname    Witness2 Forename    Witness2 Surname    Vicar    Illiterate    By licence    Superintendent Registrar's certificate

December    1893    John William    Ash    20    Bachelor    Farm Servant    Upper Hulme    Moses    Ash    Farmer    Thomas William    Wood    Sarah Jane    Ash    W. Nicholson
     

On Free BMD:
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=90516206&d=bmd_1363644324

That John William Ash is the one from this gravestone:

Quote:
No.139

In Affectionate Remembrance / of / ANNIE JANE / the Beloved Wife of / JOHN
WILLIAM ASH / (of WITHINS) / who died Dec 3rd 1894 / aged 20 years / Also
of MARY LOUISA / Daughter of the above named / who died Aug.2nd 1894 / aged
14 weeks / Thy will be done /


And I assume I turned up his birth record when looking up my John William Ash (who was born 1879):

Quote:
Births Jun 1873
Ash     John William     Leek     6b     309

http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=51648017&d=bmd_1354011142

It appears he was later remarried:

Quote:
John William Ash
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
birth:    1874   
marriage:    30 Mar 1899    Allstonefield, Stafford, England
parents:Moses Ash
spouse:Agnes Brunt

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6T4-Z9L

If nothing else it has helped me tease out the details of this John William Ash, to avoid confusion with the one in our direct family tree, although there are others around that I have pinned down:

Quote:
Births Mar 1864
ASH     John William     Leek     6b     260

http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=36108791&d=bmd_1354011142

Quote:
Deaths Sep 1895
Ash     John William     9     Leek     6b     175

http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=93751078&d=bmd_1363644324
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #11 
Oh and the last few bits of information from my research.

My Solomon Ash, who married Sarah, seems to have been born in 1772 as he comes up in a number of results at Ancestry.co.uk (I'll be signing up there next week to double check), although none of them have his parents listed:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=solomon&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=ash&gsln_x=XO&msbdy=1770&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=6uj&msbdp=10&cp=11&mssng0=sarah

Ann, wife of Solomon Ash was involved in a defamation suit, it'd be interesting to see what that was all about:



Context
LevelTitle
CollectionDiocese of Lichfield
SectionCourt records
SeriesConsistory court cause papers

LocatedAtLichfield Record Office
LevelItem
DocRefNoB/C/5/1792/108-109
TitleDefamation
Date1792
DescriptionPrincipal people: Mary Evans, spinster by her guardian; Ann wife of Solomon Ash or Ashe
Principal place: Leek, Staffordshire
Extent(1 bundle)
RefNoClick on the tree symbol to view this collection


http://www.archives.staffordshire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=DServeV.ini&dsqApp=Archive2&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=show.tcl&dsqSearch=%28RefNo==%27CA1%2F2%2F5%2F1792%2F108-109%27%29

Solomon's Hollow on the Leek-Buxton Road (where it crosses the Churnet) is named after a Solomon Ash, although which one is unclear:

http://ludchurchmyblog.wordpress.com/places-of-other-local-interest/solomons-hollow/
http://socyberty.com/folklore/the-terret-and-solomons-hollow/

Especially as there are others in the records, like this one, presumably also related as Tittesworth comes up in the family tree too (there are clearly so many they slosh about the general area) and this is close to where Solomon's Hollow is - if I had to guess I'd assume he would be a cousin of the Solomon Ash who married:

Solomon Ash, born 1732/1733:

Quote:
County    Staffordshire
Place    Leek
Church    St Edward the Confessor
RegisterNumber    77
BurialDate    23 Nov 1813
Forename    Solomon
Relationship   
Rel1MaleForename   
Rel1FemaleForename   
Rel1Surname   
Surname    ASH
Age    80
Abode    Tittesworth
Notes   
FileNumber    7704


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Burials&RecordID=2090655
Unregistered
 #12 
Hi again its Lynette from Western Australia,

To me it is great that we can all get together and try and sort out the Ash family from Leeds, Staffordshiere as we are all members. 

If i lived in England i would go directly to Leeds and research, research and try every case scenario because I have found you have to be a detective and think outside the square.

I have Phebe Ashe's death on the 11th of June 1851 age 83 years so she was born in 1768 in Leek Staffordshire.

In regards to Solmon Ash [born 23 January 1738] and Ann Morris I believe they were married on the 5th of November 1763. I also have their children as  [1] Mary born 17th December 1763, [2] Moses born 7th of April 1765, [3] Catherine born 5th July 1772. as you can see there is quite a large gap between children.

I do know for certain Phebe was born in 1768 in Leeds according to her Death Certificate, she and Solmon would fit in this gap its just proveing it.

But what seems strange to me is [1] they only had three children in those times famlies were quite large, so to me that seems impossible, could it have been that Phebe and Solomon were not registered as in that era it was not compulsory do so, and if your children were baptised it cost money, unfortunatly if the family was poor nothing was recorded. [2] Why would my ggg grandmother Phebe [Ash] Follows be living with Solmon's wife Sarah and her children after her husband died there is no question they were related. The only way that Phebe [Ash] Follows could be related was that Solmon was her brother.

 Please let me know what you all think would love to find out the truth.

Take care.

Lynette


billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #13 
Quote:
I have Phebe Ashe's death on the 11th of June 1851 age 83 years so she was born in 1768 in Leek Staffordshire.

...

I do know for certain Phebe was born in 1768 in Leeds according to her Death Certificate, she and Solmon would fit in this gap its just proveing it.


Leeds? That might explain a few things, or did you mean Leek?

She does appear on a public tree at Ancestry.co.uk:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=1&msT=1&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&gss=ms_r_db&gsfn=phoebe&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=ash&gsln_x=XO&uidh=6uj&mssng0=francis&mssns0=follows

However, yes, they do fit the gap - it might suggest there is a reason they dropped off the radar for a few years (moved somewhere? Fell out with the local priest?).

Quote:
But what seems strange to me is [1] they only had three children in those times famlies were quite large, so to me that seems impossible, could it have been that Phebe and Solomon were not registered as in that era it was not compulsory do so, and if your children were baptised it cost money, unfortunatly if the family was poor nothing was recorded.


Now therein lies the mystery. You'd imagine they'd be registered somewhere, so not being able to turn up records on either of them might suggest something is going on. A couple of guesses:

  • They are registered but somewhere along the line they've been rendered unsearchable - perhaps due to a transcription error. An "Ash" because an "Asher" and they fall between the gaps.
  • Their is something significant about the switch to Old Testament names with Thomas Ash and Mary Adderly's children in the late 1600s and become even more noticeable with Thomas Ash and Martha Tunnicliffe's children.
I have been pondering that last option for a bit but couldn't come up with an answer (too early for Wesleyianism) but I tried was doing some searching and found this set of results, which show just how badly scrambled they can get. Interestingly, they also include the England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes. Nonconformism was caused by the Act of Uniformity 1662, which fits with the dates. So following that line of supposition, we get this advice on Nonconformist records which suggests missing baptism records could be a sign of Nonconformism:

Quote:
How will you know if your ancestors attended a nonconformist church?

  1.     If the Church of England registers contain marriages and or burials for you ancestors but no baptisms.
  2.     You cannot find the baptism of your ancestor in the Church of England records for the area in which they were born.
  3.     Family tradition leads you to believe they were nonconformists. Naming patterns of four names usually including Mary for Catholics.
  4.     Old Testament names and the tradition of not eating Pork for Jews. Although Biblical names are an unreliable clue.

Nonconformist churches were called chapels rather than parishes.

Look for all nonconformist chapels in the area where your ancestors lived. People may have traveled miles to attend a certain chapel. If you know which nonconformist chapel they belonged to it will narrow your search. Remember though that they may not have attended the closest chapel, but one where they liked the minister or congregation better.

Denominational lines were not rigid

A baptismal certificate from the C of E was the only one legally accepted in a court of law until the 1840's. Many nonconformist chapels did not have a graveyard so nonconformist may be buried in an Anglican churchyard.

Some families had some children baptized in the church of England and others in a independent chapel.

Families changed religious affiliations, occasionally an entire congregation would change.


http://vernalfhc.org/classnotes/brichards/nonconformist%20records.html

They give a lot of advice, the LDS seem to have a lot of the records and it appears the Stafford Record Office has a lot of records, but don't seem to cover the period:

Quote:
Nonconformist Registers
The following nonconformist registers are deposited at Staffordshire Record Office:
Leek Circuit Wesleyan Methodist 1837-1963 (Bapts)
Leek Bethesda, Ball Haye Street Methodist 1949-1962 (Mar)
Leek Brunswick Chapel, Market Street, Wesleyan Methodist
1861-93 & 1909-76 (Bapts), 1890-1913 & 1913-1976 (Mar)
Leek Derby Street Independent 1785-1833 (Bapts)
Leek Derby Street Congregationalist 1856-1897 (Bapts), 1857-1892 (Mar)
Leek Fountain Street Primitive Methodist 1925-1946 (Mar)
Leek Mill Street Wesleyan Methodist 1925-1975 (Bapts), 1926-81(Mar)
Leek Mount Pleasant Wesleyan Methodist 1808 (Births & Bapts), 1837-1963 (Bapts)
1850-1977 (Mar) & 1850-1974 (Bur)
Leek Union Street Independent 1830-37 (Bapts)


http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/LeekandLowe/

There is a Nonconformist chapel in Meerbrook, although it has a later date than the period we are looking into:
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-275323-methodist-chapel-leekfrith-staffordshire

There is a section on Nonconformism in the history of Leekfrith which fits the exact period the names changed - the 1690s (and, as mentioned above, Upper Hulme is where a branch of the Ashes moved to, although that might not be relevant):

Quote:
NONCONFORMITY.

John Tompson was described as not 'conformable to the religion now established' in 1623, when he taught a school at Meerbrook. (fn. 90)

William Davenport of Fould Farm was converted by the Quaker Richard Hickock in 1654 and established a meeting at his home. It had 30 members in 1669, many of whom presumably lived in Leek. (fn. 91)

John Wood, a nonconformist who had been ejected from his fellowship at St. John's College, Cambridge, in 1662 and had preached in the Staffordshire Moorlands, was in 1690 recommended as a minister for a congregation to be based at Meerbrook, but he died later the same year. The recommendation came from Roger Morrice (d. 1702), vicar of Duffield (Derb.) until his ejection in 1662 and later a London merchant. He presumably had connexions with Leekfrith, where he was living when he made his will in 1701. (fn. 92) The house of John Cartwright of Upper Hulme was licensed for worship by protestant dissenters in 1693. (fn. 93)



http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22915#s11

Which at the very least suggests there are ways for the records to be out there, they will just need some digging out.

We are hoping to get out to Staffordshire over the Summer (we just need to coordinate it with some family members still out that way) and it might be possible to just brute force this by going through the records.

Quote:
[2] Why would my ggg grandmother Phebe [Ash] Follows be living with Solmon's wife Sarah and her children after her husband died there is no question they were related. The only way that Phebe [Ash] Follows could be related was that Solmon was her brother.


Oh indeed. They are definitely brother and sister, it is hooking them into Solomon and Ann Ash that is proving difficult. What clues do you have that Phoebe Ash is the daughter of Solomon and Ann? There are a lot of Ashes around, so it has been proving tricky linking them with one specific couple.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 35
 #14 
All that said, there is nothing in the records:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Asolomon~%20%2Bsurname%3AAsh~%20%2Bspouse_givenname%3Aann~&collection_id=1666142

Ditto those at:
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk

Although, as you can see it is patchy with quite a few first names missing.

However, I have pulled out all the Nonconformist Ashes in Staffordshire and none of them are any where near (Wolverhampton, Burton on Trent and Stoke on Trent). So it might be a dead end, although I suspect it might be something similar at work.
Unregistered
 #15 
The farms which were used for non conformist worship are still in Leekfrith. Although the chapel in Meerbrook was built later, there is another chapel at Danebridge which may be worth investigating. The chapel at Upperhulme is closed now but it may be worth you researching its dates. Good luck.
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