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Unregistered
 #16 
Hi,

Lynette here again from Western Australia.

In answer to the question of Phebe and Solomon's parents being Solomon Ash and Ann Morris. I really don't know for sure other than the year they were both born could fit in. Also the name Solmon Ash could be his father these are just sceniro going around in my head at the momment. I have not put that on my family tree as yet because I cannot substantiate it I won't put anything on paper untill i know it is a fact.

I have found so many people on Ancestry. com just put down what they think.

For instance and maybe someone can help me, on Ancestry they have that Francis Follows and Phebe Ash were married on the 18th of January 1789 at Saint Johns Burslem not so.

I have a copy of the banns of Francis and Phebe it reads:-

Banns of marriage between Francis Follows of the Parish of Burslem and Phebe Ash of the Parish of Leek were published Jan 4th, 11th, 18th 1789 then 2 words i can't read then it has certificate granted. But they were not married at Burslem, Staffordshire. Also it would have been a week after the third reading I have been told.

I have spoken to family members and the say it is could be that they were married at Leek.

Also the same person has Fredricks death at Staffordshire  in 1831, that Fredrick was 4 days old and was my ggg grandfathers son.

Where Fredrick died I don't know. These sorts of errors seem to be a regular occurence on Ancestry you need to check it for your self.

One day I will have to get to England so I can go to Leek and see what i can find but at this point if someone can help me it would be so appreicated.

Take care

regards

Lynette

If you would like to get in touch with me email walmc42@iinet.net.au
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #17 
Quote:
The farms which were used for non conformist worship are still in Leekfrith. Although the chapel in Meerbrook was built later, there is another chapel at Danebridge which may be worth investigating. The chapel at Upperhulme is closed now but it may be worth you researching its dates. Good luck.


Thanks for the information - that angle is still a guess and they don't turn up in any of the searches they have online, but I'm not 100% if all the Nonconformist records are in there or if they might be scattered around. I'm still digging on that front.

Quote:
In answer to the question of Phebe and Solomon's parents being Solomon Ash and Ann Morris. I really don't know for sure other than the year they were both born could fit in. Also the name Solmon Ash could be his father these are just sceniro going around in my head at the momment. I have not put that on my family tree as yet because I cannot substantiate it I won't put anything on paper untill i know it is a fact.

I have found so many people on Ancestry. com just put down what they think.


Oh indeed - some people, just make it up, and sometimes it might be the only option, bur I'm not prepared to do that quite yet. I will be signing up there soon, but if it doesn't have a separate source I can doublecheck with such information isn't of much use.

Thanks for the information, we'll contact you to swap information as the thing we do know is Phoebe and Solomon Ash are brother and sister. We are also trying to contact a family member, who might have got the family tree back this far and they live in/around Leek, so might have been able to do the groundwork to push it further.

Did Phoebe have a lot of children?
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Afollows~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Afrancis~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Aphoebe~

It is interesting to see some of the names there: Sampson, Aaron and Abraham, which continue the Old Testament theme and I recall there is at least one Samson in Solomon and Ann Ash's family tree:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9M7D-FS8

All circumstantial but still...
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #18 
Another thing strikes me that not only can we not find Solomon or Phoebe's baptism dates but their marriage records seem elusive too, while we can find them for relatives before and after (children and possible aunts and uncles, as well as possible cousins who would be contemporaries). Which does suggest something is going on and it might be more than just typos. They don't actually appear properly in the records until their kids get baptised.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #19 
Ah that might not be strictly true:

Quote:
For instance and maybe someone can help me, on Ancestry they have that Francis Follows and Phebe Ash were married on the 18th of January 1789 at Saint Johns Burslem not so.

I have a copy of the banns of Francis and Phebe it reads:-

Banns of marriage between Francis Follows of the Parish of Burslem and Phebe Ash of the Parish of Leek were published Jan 4th, 11th, 18th 1789 then 2 words i can't read then it has certificate granted. But they were not married at Burslem, Staffordshire. Also it would have been a week after the third reading I have been told.

I have spoken to family members and the say it is could be that they were married at Leek.


It does indeed look like they were married in Burslem in 1789:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6BX-3QS

Why do you think they weren't?

I also found a chunk of family tree from the LDS, does that fit with what you know?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SRCN-53C

Also just to doublecheck - is the surname Fallows or Follows? I notice you used the latter, while the records at the LDS seem to suggest it is Fallows (but it is an easy transcription error).
Unregistered
 #20 
Hi Bill,

Lynette here again I have been reading about the Staffordshire Moorlands and was interested in this piece.

 Meaning of the place called "Solmon's Hollow"  which is found on the Leek to Buxton road just on the outskirts of Leek.

It transpires that this location acquired its name Solmon's Hollow because a man named Solmon Ash who owned this land during the last century this explanation is true.

Do you think there may be a connection ?.

Lynette 

 
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #21 
Quote:
Do you think there may be a connection ?.


Definitely, although quite which Solomon Ash it is remains unclear, I also found this one I can't yet link in - born 1732/1733 died 1813 living in Tittesworth - which is the area where Solomon's Hollow is (it is marked on the 1906 1 inch to the mile White Peak map, which is very useful as it includes all the farms that come up like The Marsh, Gunside and Withins):

Quote:
County    Staffordshire
Place    Leek
Church    St Edward the Confessor
RegisterNumber    77
BurialDate    23 Nov 1813
Forename    Solomon
Relationship   
Rel1MaleForename   
Rel1FemaleForename   
Rel1Surname   
Surname    ASH
Age    80
Abode    Tittesworth
Notes   
FileNumber    7704


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Burials&RecordID=2090655

This could work as the Solomon Ash who married Ann Morris but only if his age is wrong there, as ours was christened in 1738:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3DT-23J

The gravestone might be more helpful.
Unregistered
 #22 

Hi Bill,

Hi Bill just a few lines to keep in touch,

You asked me a question about the marriage of Francis Follows and Phebe Ash I have the original copy of their banns but it does not say they were married at Burslem Staffordshire.

I also have the Saint John Burslem Parish Records Birth, Death, Marriage and they are not in it at all.

Other than the births of their children they had six children but only two survived they were [1] Aaron b 1789 d 1792, [2] Martha Harriet b 1792 d 1796, [3] Sampson b 1794 d 1796, [4] Harriet b 1797 d 1832 married John Plimbley in 1815, [5] Abraham b 1799 d 1802, [6] Ellison b 1806 d 1875 my ggg grandfather.

How are you going with your research.

Take care.

Lynette   

Unregistered
 #23 
Hi 

Interesting reading your info on the Ash family, my family is related to the Ashes too.  The gravestone readings I notice have an error No 151 RE: James and Mary Ash, there is also buried in the grave their daughter Ellen and reference to her husband Samuel Pace, I have a photograph of this headstone. I have traced the Ash family back to the 1600's and they originally came from Rudyard, I have the last inventory of Thomas Ash born 1666 and died 1744, the inventory lists his goods, cattle and chattels he was listed as Husbandsman from the Meadows, Leekfrith.

Regards

Sheri
 
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #24 
Quote:
Interesting reading your info on the Ash family, my family is related to the Ashes too.  The gravestone readings I notice have an error No 151 RE: James and Mary Ash, there is also buried in the grave their daughter Ellen and reference to her husband Samuel Pace, I have a photograph of this headstone.


A strange coincidence, as we've just returned from Staffordshire (more on that in the next post) and this is something we spotted to and were about to report that. Here is the transcript of the missing bit:

Quote:
ELLEN their daughter / and  wife of SAMUEL PACE / died September 1880 / aged 73 years

SAMUEL PACE / died at BLAKENHALL / and was intered at / WYBUNBURY CHURCH, Cheshire / December 22nd 1880 / aged 76 years


I can post photographs too, although I have stumbled across this and thought I might as well add what I've got there, as it might help others:

http://www.gravestonephotos.com

So if anyone has any others, then they can throw them in there.

Quote:
I have traced the Ash family back to the 1600's and they originally came from Rudyard


Great. I assume it is along the lines of the familysearch.org family trees I've linked to above?

Do you have any information that would help us bridge the gap betweem Solomon (and Phoebe and perhaps Joseph)? We are closing in on it (more in the next post) but if you have anything it'd really help.

Quote:
I have the last inventory of Thomas Ash born 1666 and died 1744, the inventory lists his goods, cattle and chattels he was listed as Husbandsman from the Meadows, Leekfrith.


That's interesting. If you have a scan or transcript (or any information really) we'd love to see it, as he is almost definitely a direct ancestor, even if we can't quite figure out the exact route back to him.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #25 
Quote:
How are you going with your research.


Slow, hence the lack of updates.

Which is why we went on a quick jaunt to Leek over the last few days (probably the source of some Neighbourhood Watch concerns about shifty looking characters hanging around Meerbrook).

We dropped in on a few known graves - the ones in Meerbrook weren't a surprise thanks to all the information provided here and we nipped over to Upper Elkstones to look in on the graves of a great uncle and aunt, but we'll skip over all that and focus on the relevant material for the trying to figure out the mystery of "The Gap".

So we headed from Elkstones over to Ipstones to look into the Harrison side of the family (who married in through JW Ash, mentioned above) and we tracked down most of the people we were looking for, but also made a surprise find over on the far side of the old part of the graveyard. Off in one corner where the gravestones thinned out was the grave of Sarah Ash, wife of Solomon Ash:

http://i44.tinypic.com/1zgwzsk.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/a0xt2x.jpg

Transcript:

Quote:
In memory of / SARAH. / wife of SOLOMON ASH. / Late of TITTISWORTH. / Who died October October 6th 1859 / Aged 79 years


Things to note:

  • She is listed as coming from Tittisworth
  • Something I missed until preparing the photos just now - in the bottom right of the gravestone if says: E. Ash Meerbrook, although quite who this is remains unclear - one of the daughter-in-laws Esther Ash or Ellen Plant Ash?
So her presence in Ipstones, throws out some of the assumptions we'd used to track down her later life and, readjusting the search parameters (as Ipstones falls outside of Leek and into Cheadle), we now find her in the 1851 census (clearly moved to Ipstones with the kids):

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/SGGM-244

And her in the BMD index, so we can order up her death certificate (which we'll do next):

http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?scan=1&r=29666172&d=bmd_1378192000

Tittisworth rang a bell, as it is on the Buxton Road out from Leek where Solomon's Hollow is (and having driven through it a few times, it is fine feature, worthy of such a prestigious name), so it brings out Solomon back into the frame as being the one the road was named after. There was another Solomon Ash we mentioned who was in Tittisworth, but won't quite fit into the trees we have, but we can say for sure that he isn't our Solomon Ash:

http://leekfrithhistory.forumchitchat.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1277620098&postcount=11

However, he provided a clue - Tittisworth is close enough to Leek, that it'd make sense for him to be buried at St Edward the Confessor in the middle of Leek, so could our Solomon Ash also be there? Luckily, we were staying at the White Hart, which is about a minutes walk from St Edward's so we nipped around and wandered through the graveyard. Unfortunately, a lot of gravestones are sandstone and horizontal and the British weather (of which we saw a lot over the last few days) has ground the detail off so many and with the mainly sandstone vertical stones you can get a lot of weathering, so it is pot luck whether the stones are still there and whether they are visible. So we found no Solomon Ash, but we found this:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2u8b5lh.jpg

Transcript (with the olde English f for s):

Quote:
Martha wife / of Samfon Afh interrd ye 9th of / March 1770 aged 28 Also near lie / two of her children

?  you that do behold this from / ? fee how quickly I was gone / repent in time make no delay


Martha is new to us, but Samson isn't - he is on the other side of The Gap and is a brother to the other Solomon Ash, who we have pegged as a possible father for out Solomon and Phoebe (and Joseph?). However, this was largely based on the fact that he was the only one who was married with children and we were (just about) able to shoehorn the other kids into the years between their children that we knew, although we couldn't explain why they'd be registered and the others weren't.

Now we have another possible father, although Martha dies too early to be our Solomon's mother, but she might have been Phoebe's and Samson was young enough to remarry and have other kids, which could (theoretically) include Solomon (they'd be half brother and sister, which would still qualify her and Sarah Ash to be listed as sisters-in-law in the 1841 census). Once we plug Martha's name into the system we find one of her children (presumably one of those buried near to her) - Sarah:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQPC-ZVR

While there is nothing to say Samson and Martha are the parents, what it does flag up is something perhaps more important - there are other Ash's at St Edward's who also fall into The Gap - Samson and Martha's wedding, the baptism of at least another child and the burial of all of them. So, while it is possible that Solomon and Phoebe's father is Solomon, it is also possible that there is another brother whose life has largely fallen into The Gap and, crucially, it also explains The Gap - the online transcription of the St Edward's parish records are poor (so we don't need to suggest brief periods of Nonconformism). There are others in the graveyard that also supply clues - the mention of a Solomon and Sarah Tunnicliffe at Rudyard Reservoir House in Rudyard - where the Ashes came from before moving to Meerbrook and the other parts of the area north of Leek (Tunnicliffe being one of the families that marry into the Ashes on the other side of the gap). This demonstrates that there seems to have been a fashion amongst the various families for Old Testament names, without the need for Nonconformism (again) and families were also coming over from Rudyard to the church in Leek (although a quick check shows there are 2 churches in Rudyard) so it'd make sense for nearby Ashes to keep up the tradition.

So this gives a clear next line of inquiry - the records for St Edward's and this is rather underlined by a quick recheck of FreeREG's database, which has expanded since I last looked (I was checking back from that other Tittisworth Solomon Ash - as the links seem to change over time, which is annoying):


#Record TypeBurial DateSurnameForenameCountyPlaceName Found As
1Burials15 Aug 1643ASHFra.StaffordshireLeekSurname, Relative One Surname
2Burials02 Oct 1678ASHMargrettStaffordshireLeekSurname, Relative One Surname
3Burials04 Aug 1684ASHMaryStaffordshireLeekSurname
4Burials04 Dec 1687ASHMaryStaffordshireLeekSurname
5Burials16 Apr 1696ASHThomasStaffordshireLeekSurname
6Burials01 Sep 1698ASHMaryStaffordshireLeekSurname
7Burials26 Jul 1706ASHJohnStaffordshireLeekSurname
8Burials05 Jan 1706/07ASHMaryStaffordshireLeekSurname
9Burials27 May 1707ASHMaryStaffordshireLeekSurname
10Burials23 Nov 1813ASHSolomonStaffordshireLeekSurname
11Burials15 Sep 1819ASHJamesStaffordshireLeekSurname
12Burials11 Dec 1819ASHJamesStaffordshireLeekSurname
13Burials20 Dec 1819ASHGeorgeStaffordshireLeekSurname
14Burials25 Dec 1819ASHJohnStaffordshireLeekSurname
15Burials25 Dec 1819ASHMary AnnStaffordshireLeekSurname
16Burials05 Aug 1820ASHJohnStaffordshireLeekSurname
17Burials28 Mar 1821ASHSampsonStaffordshireLeekSurname
18Burials02 May 1821ASHRalphStaffordshireLeekSurname
19Burials25 Jul 1821ASHSamuelStaffordshireLeekSurname
20Burials09 May 1822ASHWilliamStaffordshireLeekSurname
21Burials22 Jul 1823ASHMary AnnStaffordshireLeekSurname
22Burials13 Feb 1825ASHSarahStaffordshireLeekSurname
23Burials11 Mar 1825ASHSamuelStaffordshireLeekSurname
24Burials19 Jun 1825ASHAnnStaffordshireLeekSurname
25Burials23 Mar 1826ASHJohnStaffordshireLeekSurname
26Burials05 Nov 1828ASHSolomanStaffordshireLeekSurname
27Burials06 Apr 1832ASHJosephStaffordshireLeekSurname
28Burials14 Aug 1833ASHHannahStaffordshireLeekSurname
29Burials08 Feb 1835ASHJamesStaffordshireLeekSurname
30Burials21 Mar 1837ASHAnnStaffordshireLeekSurname
31Burials13 May 1837ASHSusannaStaffordshireLeekSurname
32Burials20 Jan 1838ASHHannahStaffordshireLeekSurname
33Burials06 Feb 1861ASHEliza AnnStaffordshireLeekSurname

And what is that? A Soloman? Yep, it is our Solomon:

CountyStaffordshire
PlaceLeek
ChurchSt Edward the Confessor
RegisterNumber2142
BurialDate05 Nov 1828
ForenameSoloman
Relationship 
Rel1MaleForename 
Rel1FemaleForename 
Rel1Surname 
SurnameASH
Age56
AbodeTittesworth
Notes 
FileNumber7886

This is both a great development (we now have both Solomon and Sarah's deaths) and a clear sign that there is missing data. The other results above and the baptisms and marriages are now returning more records too, which also support this, as it shows Ashes have been going to St Edward's since the 1600s:

#Record TypeBaptism DateSurnameForenameCountyPlaceName Found As
1Baptisms21 Jan 1718/19 ElizabethStaffordshireLeekMother Surname
2Baptisms17 Mar 1644/45ASHRalphStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
3Baptisms10 Apr 1696ASHThomasStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
4Baptisms28 Jul 1698ASHGeorgeStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
5Baptisms20 Jun 1703ASHJamesStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
6Baptisms18 Apr 1706ASHMosesStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
7Baptisms01 Aug 1707ASHSarahStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
8Baptisms22 Apr 1709ASHThomasStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
9Baptisms23 Jun 1711ASHMaryStaffordshireLeekFather Surname
10Baptisms16 Jan 1713/14ASHJaneStaffordshireLeekFather Surname

#Record TypeMarriage DateSurnameForenameCountyPlaceName Found As
1Marriages11 Sep 1678ASHGeo.StaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
2Marriages28 Oct 1686ASHTho.StaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
3Marriages13 Oct 1662ASHJohnStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
4Marriages31 Dec 1698WASHINGTONWillmStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname, Bride Surname
5Marriages02 Nov 1706ASHJamesStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
6Marriages18 Apr 1710ASHJohnStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
7Marriages24 Feb 1727/28ASHMosesStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
8Marriages07 Jun 1729ASHSamuelStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname
9Marriages07 Jun 1729ASHSamuelStaffordshireLeekGroom Surname

Also you can see that Thomas Ash and Mary Adderly (who were marries at St Edward's in 1686 and are almost definitely Solomon and Phoebe's great-grandparents, even if we can't work out how they link in), have even more children - bringing the count to 12 or 13 (I'm not sure on George Ash), opening up a lot of possibilities.

Anyway, this shows that we can probably sit around twiddling our thumbs and the relevant records will eventually get indexed eventually (while FreeBMD is complete enough to be relatively reliable, FreeREG and FreeCEN, the latter the free census index, just aren't) but Stoke Records Office is close enough that we can take a jaunt out there one day, perhaps in the next week or two. Hopefully, this should fill in The Gap.

Quote:
You asked me a question about the marriage of Francis Follows and Phebe Ash I have the original copy of their banns but it does not say they were married at Burslem Staffordshire.

I also have the Saint John Burslem Parish Records Birth, Death, Marriage and they are not in it at all.

Other than the births of their children they had six children but only two survived they were [1] Aaron b 1789 d 1792, [2] Martha Harriet b 1792 d 1796, [3] Sampson b 1794 d 1796, [4] Harriet b 1797 d 1832 married John Plimbley in 1815, [5] Abraham b 1799 d 1802, [6] Ellison b 1806 d 1875 my ggg grandfather.


Thanks for the information, I'll update our records with that.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #26 
Just a little more information, as we sort through the information we have:

We found the gravestone for John and Esther Ash mentioned above:

Quote:
John Ash
Born: Tittesworth, 1820 (there is a typo in the 1871 census - it is given as Littisworth, but it is given as Littleworth in the 1861 one, however, it is given as Tittesworth in the 1881, which is the closest. The birthdate seems to be wrong in the 1871 census)

Esther Ash
Born: Leekfrith, 1812-1813
Died: 1882 (4th Q  Leek 6b 209)
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=69481461&d=bmd_1356684424
Buried: St Matthews Church, Meerbrook, December 18 1882 (thanks to your transcription of burial records)

They were married in 1849, presumably in Leekfrith (3rd Q 1849 Leek 17 71):
http://www2.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=15014653&d=bmd_1356684424


This is the stone (note the lovely star for Esther):

http://i43.tinypic.com/2a9adyf.jpg

It is right next to the one for their kids that was mentioned above and the text reads:

Quote:
In affectionate remembrance of / ESTHER / the wife of JOHN ASH / of / The Marsh Meerbrook / who died Dec. 13th 1882. / Aged 69 years.

"Her end was peace."

Also of LOUISA NIXON / of White-Hough Hall. / Grandaughter of the above / who died Aug. 25th 1886. / Aged 4 months

Also the above JOHN ASH / late of White-Hough Hall. / Who died May 5th 1898. / Aged 78 years

"His toils are o'er his work is done."


Louisa Nixon is the daughter of Catherine Ash, who (after having JW Ash out of wedlock) moved to Ipstones and married Thomas James Nixon (taking John Ash to Ipstones with her, as we see in the 1891 census). White-Hough Hall is this one - a little fancy:

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-274663-whitehough-ipstones-staffordshire
http://search.fishergerman.co.uk/property/view/id/349902

===
Also, as I mentioned above, with regard to Sarah Ash's gravestone:

Quote:
Something I missed until preparing the photos just now - in the bottom right of the gravestone if says: E. Ash Meerbrook, although quite who this is remains unclear - one of the daughter-in-laws Esther Ash or Ellen Plant Ash?


Something was niggling me and I found this in my notes:

Quote:
In 1873 the nave was rebuilt and was given a south-west porch; the west tower was demolished. The church has a stone pulpit and font carved by Edward Ash of Meerbrook, the nephew and pupil of the sculptor Richard Hassall of Leekfrith


http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22915

Quote:
The church was rebuilt in 1901. Of coursed ashlar in a Gothic style to the design of W. R. Bryden of Buxton, it consists of a chancel with south organ chamber and north vestry, a nave, and a west tower. Fittings include a stone pulpit carved and given by a local sculptor, Edward Ash, a stone and marble reredos given by James Oliver of Meerbrook, in Leekfrith


http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22907

He is her Sarah Ash's grandson (son of Moses Ash and Ellen Plant Hassall) who we have the details for, but didn't mention earlier. I'd also bet he was responsible for Esther and John Ash's gravestone (they were his aunt and uncle) - although I didn't spot his name on it, there is some fine work, as there is on Sarah's. In fact I just looked again, and you can see "ASH" poking out of the grass at the bottom right corner (same capital letters and size and position as on Sarah's), so that is almost definite. So that is interesting - you don't often get to find out who carved specific gravestones and knowing it is a family member who we already knew a bit about is nice.
irenekirk

Registered:
Posts: 14
 #27 
It's lovely to note that Edward Ash's work is still appreciated. Have you seen Richard Hassall's work in Meerbrook?
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #28 
Quote:
It's lovely to note that Edward Ash's work is still appreciated.


And it is fine work. I might be biased, but the quality of the work really makes his gravestones stand out. We have seen an awful lot of them last week (we also did the rounds of Leek Cemetery, where John Oakes Ash and his wife are apparently buried, but the sheer size of the place meant we need to retreat and keep... digging).

Quote:
Have you seen Richard Hassall's work in Meerbrook?


Unfortunately not. However, this was more a quick fact finding mission to clarify a few points and see if it'd open up other avenues of research (which it did) and we'll be back at a more leisurely pace - one thing to look at would be Edward Ash's work elsewhere, which would mean taking in some of Hassall carvings too.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #29 
Just a quick update to say we've now got all the relevant BMD certificates for the immediate line of Ashes back to Sarah Ash's death (of the wonderful "Decay of Nature", so much better than old age), no surprises (although Catherine Ash's death isn't pleasant, although perhaps they never are) but it does explain why we never found Catherine's grave as they'd moved to Bradnop just before she died, so I assume she is there (or we missed her a Ipstones).

We'll be scanning them in and adding them to genealogical websites (once we've sorted out The Gap and filled in Solomon's parents, as well as other bits in other parts of the tree we'll upload a GEDCOM to a few places), but if anyone wants one in the meantime let us know.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #30 
Quote:
  • Their is something significant about the switch to Old Testament names with Thomas Ash and Mary Adderly's children in the late 1600s and become even more noticeable with Thomas Ash and Martha Tunnicliffe's children.
I have been pondering that last option for a bit but couldn't come up with an answer (too early for Wesleyianism)


Following a clue from a book I'm reading on the Malbon family (the Butterton branch of the family tying into the Ashes through the Harrisons through more illegitimacy - if everyone had married to womanfolk they'd impregnated then Edward Harrison Ash would have been called Edward Malbon Robinson, but both surnames come down from the female side of the family. I also assume the Edward comes from the sculptor, as he did a lot for the family) and it seems that the reason is almost definitely that they became Puritans:

http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/puritan_names

I couldn't find much on Puritans in the area, but there is Roger Morrice who was born in Meerbrook and recently got a lot of attention because of the discovery of his diary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Morrice

Quote:
Roger Morrice was born in 1628 in Meerbrook and he returned to die in the village in 1702. Morrice was a puritan minister who was the minister at one time at a parish in Duffield in Derbyshire before moving to London

...

He returned to North Staffordshire before his death in 1702 and left £100 to the church in Meerbrook for the purchase of bibles and the education of 8 poor children in Latin.


http://leeklabourchurch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/roger-morrice-17th-century-diarist-of.html

Which would also suggest they'd have support Parliament against the King - I found a passing mention during my searches:

Quote:
His Will, dated not fifth, but Ye Seventeenth, year of Ye Reign of our sovereign Lord King Charles Ye Second...suggestive of a Royalist in those largely Puritan, Roundhead Moorland


http://www.broughfamily.org/history/John_Burgh_Middle_Hulme_&_Descendants.html

Which suggests they'd have been accommodated within the existing churches (but might have travelled to certain churches depending on how sympathetic the priests were), so that is where we'll focus our next round of investigations.
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