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Unregistered
 #31 
Hi All,

This is Lynette again from Western Australia I have been reading with interest the research you have all done.

As you know i am the ggg grandaughter of Pheobe Ash there is no dought in my mind that Solomon Ash and Pheobe are brother and sister. In the 1841 U/k census Pheobe was living at Tittesworth with Sarah (Ferihough) Ash and her children. Sarah (Ferihough) Ash was born at Ipstones in 1781 I knew she died in 1859 and thanks to you all i now have a date.

In regards to the marriage of Francis Fallows-Follows the right spelling is Follows and Pheobe Ash it is true that only the banns were read at Burslem Staffordshire I have been wondering if they went to Leek and were married there what is your opinions.

I would love to find Pheobe's birth and marriage I do have a copy of her death she died at Tunstall Staffordshire but I believe she may have been buried at Leek.

As I live so far away the research you are all doing is impossiable for me to find so a big thank you.

If at any time any of you would like to get in touch with me please do my email is walmc42@iinet.net.au. I live about 10 ks from Fremantle.

My grandfather Ellison Charles Follows who came to Western Australia in 1914.

Please keep up the good work i would love to go to England and go to Leek myself.

A big thank you once again take care.

lynette
Unregistered
 #32 
Hi All,
I have foud a birth of a Sarah Ash born 03 January 1764 at Leek Stafford father Sampson mother Martha.

Do you think this Sampson and Martha could be Pheobe and Solmons parents. Would live some feed back.

Take care.
Lynette
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #33 
Quote:
As you know i am the ggg grandaughter of Pheobe Ash there is no dought in my mind that Solomon Ash and Pheobe are brother and sister. In the 1841 U/k census Pheobe was living at Tittesworth with Sarah (Ferihough) Ash and her children. Sarah (Ferihough) Ash was born at Ipstones in 1781 I knew she died in 1859 and thanks to you all i now have a date.


We even know who carved the gravestone [smile] It also explains why she moved back to Ipstones when Solomon died and it g
ives a family connection to the area, as we find her son John, his children, some grandchildren and others moving from Meerbrook to Ipstones when Esther Ash died.

Going around the graveyard at St Leonard's in Ipstones there were many other Fernihoughs there, so I am confident I can follow that line back a while too.

Quote:
In regards to the marriage of Francis Fallows-Follows the right spelling is Follows and Pheobe Ash it is true that only the banns were read at Burslem Staffordshire I have been wondering if they went to Leek and were married there what is your opinions.

I would love to find Pheobe's birth and marriage I do have a copy of her death she died at Tunstall Staffordshire but I believe she may have been buried at Leek.


I'm feeling pretty confident that the missing information is to be found in the records at St Edward the Confessor's, we now know Solomon Ash is buried there and I think it reasonable to assume he and Sarah were married there (I've picked up a mention of their wedding being 15th August 1803 in Leek Staffordshire but with no source - should be easy enough to sort out). I'd also bet Phoebe would have been married there and it is not outrageous to think she might have been buried with her brother.

In fact if you plug in Fallows (or Follows with Soundex) into here, you'll find quite a few already and a gap in the 1700s:

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Might not mean anything, but still...

Quote:
I have foud a birth of a Sarah Ash born 03 January 1764 at Leek Stafford father Sampson mother Martha.

Do you think this Sampson and Martha could be Pheobe and Solmons parents.


Yes I got her from here:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQPC-ZVR


And that is the Samson and Martha I mentioned here:

http://leekfrithhistory.forumchitchat.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1279543118&postcount=25

[2u8b5lh]

Sampson is certainly a possibility (and more of one now we know he married), but I found Martha's gravestone and she died young in 1770 (before Solomon's presumed date of birth around 1772). So, if it is him, then he must have remarried, which isn't a surprise as he'd have been in his late 20s/early 30s at that point (and he'd clearly lost a couple of children by then too). So Solomon and Phoebe would be half-brother and sister (although the census would still record her and Sarah as being sisters-in-law as I don't think there is such a thing as half-sisters-in-law).

I also imagine when we find Solomon and Phoebe's parents, we'll find they are Joseph Ash's too. He is also buried at St Edward the Confessor's despite living in Upper Hulme:

CountyStaffordshire
PlaceLeek
ChurchSt Edward the Confessor
RegisterNumber314
BurialDate06 Apr 1832
ForenameJoseph
Relationship 
Rel1MaleForename 
Rel1FemaleForename 
Rel1Surname 
SurnameASH
Age56
AbodeUpper Hulme
Notes 
FileNumber8005


http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Burials&RecordID=2151267

Quote:
As I live so far away the research you are all doing is impossiable for me to find so a big thank you.

If at any time any of you would like to get in touch with me please do my email is walmc42@iinet.net.au. I live about 10 ks from Fremantle.


No problem, when we've filled in The Gap, we'll scan in everything we've got and send it over to you, then we can compare notes. Hopefully, we'll take the jaunt over to Stoke in the next couple of weeks
wcathryn

Registered:
Posts: 1
 #34 

Phebe Ash, who married Francis Followes at St Edward’s church in Leek in 1789, was the daughter of Sampson Ash and his wife Martha, nee Wood. Phebe, who was christened in 1766, had a sister, Sarah, christened in 1764 and a sister, Martha, christened in 1769. They were all christened at St Edward’s Church in Leek. Leek Parish was very extensive and covered many villages and areas surrounding Leek as well as the town.

 

Martha Ash, nee Wood, died in 1770, and is buried in Leek churchyard with 2 infant children.

 

Sampson, born circa 1740, was only 30 years old when his wife died, but seems to have not married again until 1783 when he married Ann Peacock.  I cannot trace any children of this marriage. So it seems unlikely that Phebe had a brother named Solomon who was born circa 1772. In fact the Leek Parish register does not record the christening of a Solomon Ash who could be the Solomon who married Sarah Fernihough and who farmed at Upper Tittesworth. (No Solomon is recorded at all). So did Sampson marry again before he married Ann Peacock and is Solomon a child of this supposed marriage? I have found no evidence to support this theory.

 

However, Sampson Ash did have a brother named Solomon, born circa 1738, who married Ann Morris in 1763 at St Edward’s. Their children were Mary (1763), Moses (1765), Ann (1767), Martha (1768), Mary and Lucy (1771), Catherine (1772), Sarah (1774), Hannah (1778). These are all christening dates and not birth dates. In this area sometimes christenings were delayed when farmers were busy getting in the harvest etc. so two children of different ages could be christened on the same day.

Does Solomon fit in with this family?

 

Members of the Ash family were almost always married by licence and could sign their own names which can indicate wealth and social status. A Solomon Ash and Lucy Ash witnessed the marriage of Mary in 1792, Lucy was her sister but was Solomon her brother or was it her father who signed. A Solomon also witnessed the marriage of Catherine Ash in 1793, again was this father or her brother.

 

Even if we don’t discover Solomon’s parentage it doesn’t really matter as Samson and Solomon Ash were brothers and the sons of Thomas Ash and his wife, Martha, nee Tunnicliffe. Their children were cousins so that Phebe and Solomon would be cousins if not siblings. Their lineage can be traced to a Thomas Ash (1666) who moved from Rudyard to Meerbrook.
I've recently been helping Lynette from australia with a query and my answer is above. i have amassed a greta deal of info about the Ash family from Tittesworth, meerbrook and Ipstones and will be happy to answer any queries. Cathryn Walton, Leek


__________________
Cathryn Walton
Unregistered
 #35 
Thank you Cathryn. I am sure that this will be helpful for many people.
Unregistered
 #36 
Hi Cathryn,

Without your help Cathryn I would never have found Sampson Ash and Martha Wood so I am delighted. If anyone out there has any more information on other Ash Family members my email is walmc42@iinet.net.au. To Bill Barnes and other Ash Family embers out there a HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL.

Lynette (Western Australia

Unregistered
 #37 
Looking at your Ash research (my relations are John and Rebecca Ash), I noticed your reference to Solomon's Hollow. My father told me it was named after the incident in the Bible when King Solomon, with a small army, was fighting the Philistines - his army was one side of a gorge and Solomon got his troops to burnish their shields and shine them in the eyes of the enemy, so they didn't see the gorge and fell into it. I see no reason to doubt him.
My John Ash was a silk dyer but his father Samuel was a farm bailiff. I haven't found his father yet, but we're probably related somewhere along the line!
regards,
Judy
Unregistered
 #38 
Hi Judy,
I am Lynette McLaughlin from Perth in Western Australia. Welcome to the clan.
My GGGG Grandmother was Phebe Ash born 1766 in Leek she died in Tunstall, Staffordshire in 1851.
Please keep in touch. Take care. Lynette McLaughlin 
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #39 
Well it has been a bit, thanks to sundry events intervening. Thanks to everyone for their input, all very handy.

What we have been hoping to do was get to Lichfield to check Solomon Ash's will. Unfortunately, we never managed to get the time. However, because of the wait FindMyPast.co.uk have got around to scanning in all the wills, which has saved a tonne of time and effort and allowed us to fish around for other relevant ones.

Unfortunately, Solomon Ash's will isn't very revealing and doesn't add much information. I also looked up the will John Fernihough who married Hannah Ash in the ceremony immediately after Solomon and Sarah's but again, that didn't provide much help.

Luckily, now it is all online we can go digging. John Fernihough's father John Fernihough (died 1813) has a will and in it he leaves money to Sarah Ash, wife of a Solomon Ash so we know she is the younger John's daughter (and it fits with an 1873 baptism), so that is one line nailed down. I then looked for Samson Ash's and drew a blank. So I tried his brother Solomon Ash's (also died 1813) and hit paydirt as the detailed will lists his sons and daughters (and the latter's husbands) as well quite a few of their children which fills in a lot more information about these Ashes, including his son Solomon Ash and his children at the time - John and Hannah (I have the mention of an Ann, probably the same ones). This is the earlier John Ash who died in 1820 and so they named the son born in 1820 John too and it is this John who married Esther Kirkham and is buried in the Meerbrook churchyard and is my wife's gg-grandfather. So it locks down this family line as far back as we've managed to push the Ashes.

Here it is in full:

Quote:
Lich: 15th Jany
1814
To Solomon Ash
poe  Leek
2  ??? 1500

--
I Solomon Ash Farmer of Tittesworth in the parish of Leek in the County of Stafford being sick but of sound and disposing Mind Memory and Understanding Blessed be God for the some do hereby make and Appoint this my last will and Testament

I Give and Bequeath unto my grandchildren being the Sons and Daughters of my late daughter Ann Stannah the following sums

To William Stannah the sum of Twenty Pounds
To Samuel Stannah the sum of Twenty Pounds
To Sarah Stannah the sum of Twenty Pounds
To Catharine Stannah the sum of Twenty Pounds
To Solomon Stannah the sum of Twenty Two Pounds
To Ann Stannah the sum of Ten Pounds
To Hannah Stannah the sum of five Pounds all of which sums I appoint to be paid at the Expiration of Twenty One years from the birth of the aforesaid Solomon and in case any of the above children should die without lawful issue before the Expira of Twenty One years from the birth of the aforesaid Solomon Stannah the share or Shares of such children so dying to be equally divided amongst the survivors before mentioned

I give and bequeath to my grandson William Beresford the son of my late daughter Catherine the sum of One Hundred Pounds

I give and bequeath unto my daughter Mary the wife of William Cope the sum of Eighty pounds

I give and bequeath to my daughter Sarah the wife of Francis Clark the sum of One Hundred Pounds

--
I give and bequeath unto my daughter Lucy the wife of Thomas Ash the sum of Eighty Pounds

I give and bequeath unto my daughter Hannah the wife of John Fernyhough the sum of Eighty [changed to One Hundred, then back to Eighty] Pounds Sixty [changed to Eighty, then back to Sixty]  pounds of which he now has in hand upon a ?? which leaves him to receive the ?? sum of Twenty Pounds

I give and bequeath unto Hannah Smith the daughter of my daughter Mary Cope the sum of Thirty Pounds

I give and bequeath unto John the son of my my [sic] son Solomon Ash the sum of ?Nine? Hundred Pounds

I give to my grandaughter Hannah Ash daughter of my son Solomon Ash the sum of Fifty Pounds

I give and bequeath unto my son Solomon Ash the remainder or ?? of all my Estate Property or Effects live and dead ?stock? Goods + chattels whatsoever or wheresoever

And I do hearby nominate Constitute and Appoint John Blore of ?Rownel? and John Morris of Thorncliffe Executors of this my last Will and Testament whom I do hereby charge with the payment of all my ?? and lawful debts Funeral and Testamentary Charges for which Trouble I give them the sum of One Pound Each if they

--
shall please to accept it exclusive of the charges incurred by the execution of their ?? ??

In writing hereof I the said Solomon Ash have hereunto subscribed and set to my hand and seal this Eighteenth day of November in the year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Thirteen.


So there you go, Solomon Ash is the cousin of Phoebe and the wills are providing a goldmine for adding in more information just at the point the marriage and baptismal records can get a little skimpy. I am still working the productive seams to see what we can find further back - hopefully more information will turn up.

However, although we don't have Solomon Ash's baptism, we've solved the mystery.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #40 
Judy:

Quote:
I noticed your reference to Solomon's Hollow. My father told me it was named after the incident in the Bible when King Solomon, with a small army, was fighting the Philistines - his army was one side of a gorge and Solomon got his troops to burnish their shields and shine them in the eyes of the enemy, so they didn't see the gorge and fell into it. I see no reason to doubt him.


Well there is no reason they can't both be true - the presence of a local farmer called Solomon could have got minds thinking along Biblical lines...

Fear not, the family has no plans to occupy the hollow and charge a toll on the Leek-Buxton road. Yet [wink]

Quote:
Looking at your Ash research (my relations are John and Rebecca Ash),

....

My John Ash was a silk dyer but his father Samuel was a farm bailiff. I haven't found his father yet, but we're probably related somewhere along the line!


Can you provide any dates? There are three Samuel Ash's in our tree (all largely falling in the family's Puritan phase) and a date might narrow them down. If we can then find a will or some other evidence it could help confirm the links.
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #41 
Oh and to any passing Ash relatives - we are trying to get the family tree together on Geni.com, but I've yet to make the most recent changes or add the latest information in (that'll happen soon). So if there are any people we know are connected you can let us know and, if you aren't on there, we can invite you to the tree (saves having to search us out and merge in) or if you are there keep an eye out for any matches.
Unregistered
 #42 
Sorry, barbarries, I've been working on my mum's side of the family and not keeping an eye on this site! Samuel Ash married Christiana Ball at St Peters, Stoke 11th Sept 1806. He may have been married before, to Mary Beeland in 1796 at Norton in the Moors (I think Christiana came from there). John was born in 1817 in Hanley, some of his elder brothers and sisters were baptised in Cheddleton, so Sam must've been farming there for a time. He died in Hanley in 1836. John married Rebecca Stonehewer (or Stonier) and had a son James in 1838, then no more (living) children until my great-grandmother Hannah in 1854 and her sister Alice in 1856 They lived in Tittesworth.
I think Sam's father could have been James - there's a Sam christened at St Edwards, Leek 25th June 1775, parents James and Ann, which would fit. I've yet to look for any wider connections.
Judy
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #43 
Interesting.

Our first Samuel (bap. 1699) is the older Solomon Ash's uncle:
https://www.geni.com/people/Samuel-Ash/6000000042268077792

He had a son James (bap 1740):
https://www.geni.com/people/James-Ash/6000000042293698135

One of the other Samuels is James' brother (bap. 1734):
https://www.geni.com/people/Samuel-Ash/6000000042293425404

A 1775 baptism would fit with the above James - as the above shows, the family seems to have their children in their 30s and 40s.

If right, then James would be the older Solomon's (bap. 1737) first cousin and your Samuel would be the second cousin of the younger Solomon Ash (c. 1772 - we've never found his baptism, presumably as the records at St Edward's are so faded for the relevant period).

The older Thomas Ash (bap. 1666) would be the last common ancestor between your family and ours (probably making the different sides of the family 7th cousins - it might just show up in a DNA test, but it'd be pushing the envelope):
https://www.geni.com/people/Thomas-Ash/6000000028830251033

You'd need to eliminate other James Ashs from the period but (and I'll doublecheck my records) I haven't got another James in that time period. If I'd found a marriage of a James and Ann, then the birth of their son Samuel, I'd have done some checking to make sure there aren't others around and then added them to the tree. As has been said, James and other such names (like the younger Solomon's son John, bap. 1806 - your John's third cousin?) are the family emerging from the Puritan naming patterns.

Hope that helps.
Unregistered
 #44 
Thank you for that. I thought we would be related, however distant! Judy
billbarnes

Registered:
Posts: 37
 #45 
Good stuff. I can add you into the tree on Geni.com - if you PM me your line of descent (doesn't have to be too detailed, although do mark the living on there for the sake of privacy) I'll add that in along with yourself and then I can invite you to join through your entry. You can then fill in your end.

---
Also if anyone is interested there is currently a sale on at FTDNA and their family finder is the lowest price ever:
https://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx

There are also discount vouchers that can give money off some tests (they issue new vouchers every week):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CgXRKz2TySvRqSInveSIYoslO7yexAc9d-BzpNhaY1c/edit#gid=1407175528

I'm trying to rummage up some Ashes to get tested as we speak.
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